its been real quite on this subject lately. ive got a question for anyone!ive bought the 3 DVD set,watched it several times, listened to Hals archeives and read everything i could on this. my question is: can anyone tell me where and what law exactly says this 1866 MEG isnt still in effect in full force? if it is still in effect,how/why did we get off the beaten track so badly? why didnt a mining law lawyer see this and know we should rely on it,and use it in court? and lastly, how do we find a lawyer that is good/GREAT in knowing the mining laws so that we know that we can depend on him in the event we need one? i hear all kinds of answers that are rummors/hearsay/feelings. i want to hear if someone really knows the facts and can direct me to those facts exactly!some of us might need this info down the road for their defense!

In response to Reply # 0

Hello
The Grant once given can not be taken back and still has the full force intended.

The off track happened when the old miners taught the kids and the kids went to the city and never went back to mining. Slowly the mining districts went silent and the mining laws where not used.

People in the agencies slowly overlaid the mining laws with administrative laws either out of ingnorance or intention.

Most lawyers practice administrative law. Judges are lawyers and probably only delt with administrative cases. Very few practice Property rights law.

At the moment maybe 3-4 lawyers actually understand how the grant works. I would bet that all but two work for the a government agency.

The BLM and FS have a non-discretionary "advisory" role in what they want the claim owner to do. That is why the government agencies try not to tell each other what to do.

We were meant to be on equal footing with the government. That is why you will read soveriegn to soveriegn. Equal to Equal.

hope this helps just my opinion on the research I have done.

In response to Reply # 1
Wed Nov-04-09 05:41 PM by dredgeman

We got the DVD set. Before that we had researched most of the laws and noticed that even title 43 has a mining exlusion. It is the one he read on the DVD.

After noticing all the exlusions we came to the conclusion that we have allowed ourselves to agree to lesser rights by using thier forms that state you will be administratively RULED. We are in the process of getting back to the granted rights and equal footing.

The Right of Relation back to 1866 was a real key for us. In all the administrative laws there is exceptions since the 1866 law was formed. Even the 1872 law has an exception.

"EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED" the 1866 grant provided a lot in granting the PUBLIC DOMAIN to the citizens.

BLM has authority in Public Lands. The surface, we have our rights in property in the ground. We have first right to our property before everything else. As long as the best use of the land in the United States in promoting wealth for our country like congress still states today.

In response to Reply # 0

I think Dredgeman said it pretty well. I have been to listen to Hal several times and have done my own research. The interesting thing is I have been totally unable to find any written document that actually says anything about replacing or repealing the original grant. Our problems do not seem to come from what has been written but from what has been said. If you have the nerve to mention your intended use of the grant to some of your non mining friends you will quickly feel like the roasted turkey at T day. Unfortunately as miners we stand alone at this time. Since all your non mining friends are heavily controlled by administrative rules in what ever they do , of course we must have the same tight controls. Sometimes it is even impossible to get miners to listen since they have been taught to believe the BLM and USFS propaganda.

In response to Reply # 3

thankyou for the thoughtout reply! im still looking for the person that CAN discount the 1866 MEG and show me where it isnt the law to follow! i can read/understand and have done so, but im no lawyer.

In response to Reply # 4

Well I have never heard the BLM etc. question their own authority or ask someone where does our authority come from.

I have heard them tell other people that they have no authority, until all the court cases. Most of the cases involve property law. The BLM etc. derive authority from statutes of congress, then make up the regulations to fulfill the statute.

Congress made a grant (statute for citizens) which contains more power than the others.

If you are looking for the loophole that you are going to get hung with. It will be that in signing convenient papers provided if you want to use them, say you will accept lesser rights and be managed.

I have some claims on Merced river in the Wild and Scenic area. Every 5 years they have a river plan meeting with BLM. 30 miners sit around and listen to BLM tell us what we have to do. ONE guy in the room raises his hand on every comment they make. The BLM guy tells him every time he raises his hand "We will address you after the meeting, because you are different". That is what started our research.
The ONE guy is different from all the other people in the room because he didn't accept lesser rights than the grant allowed and they had to deal with him as his own agency. In an "advisory" non-discretionary relationship.
The ONE guy still has his mine on the North Fork while all others were ran out.

We are always researching to catch up to the past.

In response to Reply # 5

The short answer would be: No one can in Law. The grant was forever and cannot be moved against or prohibited.
OR
Everyone with an opinion WILL say something about what they do not understand.
OR
People who do not want to research will say, In todays world the government and courts will do what they want. And the government and courts will UNTIL they are held ACCOUNTABLE in LAW.

In response to Reply # 6

thankyou! this was the concensis of the DVD.i accept this, but i was hopeing to open some dialog with someone that still had doubts on this law. it seems to me that a majority of the small scale miners are sitting back waiting to see waht turns up or theyre having trouble researching these laws on their own. Hals archeives are loaded with info, all free for us to listen to. im wanting to download these to my computor and copy ALL of them to CD so i can listen to them while driving or be able to share these with others and our clubs to listen to. as far as im concerned, these laws are our only way out to keep our rights alive. if they fail, this WILL become the scurge of our land and ALL of the states will SOON follow suit!it seems itsa already happening in a few! we need to get our stuff together or pay the piper!

In response to Reply # 7

We understand what you are looking for. We are looking also. I talked to someone who has met Hal and is not convinced. He knows the laws and thinks that Hals approach until fully explainable to everyone will get people in trouble. I was working the problem backward. Working to defeat the 1866 law so I would know how we would get in trouble. Most of the enviro sites have articles on how to battle the mining laws.

In response to Reply # 8

Most of the
>enviro sites have articles on how to battle the mining laws.


knowing their approach/game plans would be a very good thing to know in our defenseweither out at the creek or in court. could you post the webaddys of these groups or a link for us to follow them? after all, they are watching/reading ours, why not watch theirs!

In response to Reply # 9

at our GPAA meeting i stood up and gave a little speach about the 1866 MEG to our club. most werent aware of this law or its implications. anyway, i thought id get a lot of questions pertainingto this but it got real quiet when i finished talking. i asked everyone not to belieive what i said but todo pullup its website and read the law themselves!and make their own copys....i ran out of them while there. www.grantedright.com/The_Law.html i wanted to show the DVD set to them but we ran out of time(its almost 6 hours long)

In response to Reply # 10
Sun Nov-15-09 11:57 AM by dredgeman

Keep up the work.
We have been educating the FIM on this end.